The Aboitiz Cup

Now that the days of the festivals are over (or is it). The Aboitiz Cup for the various age groups is supposed to start this month.

Now for definition, a "Cup" type tournament (at least in Cebu, is where the teams are grouped into brackets, and the top teams advance to the semifinals...blahblahblah)

There is only one league-type tournament, the Aboitiz Men's League, which is set to open...

Comments

Anonymous said…
Cup or league doesnt matter as long as players in the important age brackets (12 up) get to play A LOT (and not only one Aboitiz Cup) of full-sided and full-timed games...and dont stop festivals/fiestas, they are needed to popularize the sport here and also for the younger years (11 below) to be exposed and have fun.
Anonymous said…
Lets keep it simple: lets always keep in mind to benchmark our football programs and activities against those of Iloilo/Bacolod and not against previous years' Cebu programs...not even against Germany or ASEAN. Theyre too much ahead of us. Arent they (Iloilo/Bacolod) the ones we want to beat?
Anonymous said…
before - when the age groups were then known as mosquitoe, mini, midget, aspirants and juniors - and games were full-sided, some schools were allowed to field two teams to a bracket. the objective then was to allow the less experience players to compete with the intent that they will get better. this policy was a God-send to late-bloomers to the sport.

i'm not sure about today's CebuFA policy concerning multiple teams from one school/club particiapting in one tournament. to be clear, i am refering to B12 above. i hope that a school/club will be allowed to field as many teams as they want but they should also be responsible enough to field legitimately competitive second teams.

i remember roberto's comment here - that we are losing players thru attrition. a big part in losing players to other sports or activities is when they get discouraged for being left out of the school varsity or the club's first team. by allowing second teams to participate, we could prevent this from happening.

if i remember correctly, one thing Maximo mentioned during his interview with Pages was his intention to separate the age-groups into advanced and newcomer brackets. i'm not sure about his details (and i am interested to see it) but i am agreeable to the concept. a newcomer or "trainee" bracket would encourage these players to stay with football since they will be playing and competing at a level appropriate with their skills.
Anonymous said…
when is it?and will it push thru?

i know not only me is very eager to have this competetion starts earlier and on wat type of league or cup will it be now?

is 7 aside tournaments not over until now?

for the love of the game let the mens open begin now or right after cesafi...heheheheheheheheh
Anonymous said…
yup ronaldo your right thats better there that time of ugarte, when he is the still the president.... mosquito,mini, midget aspirants and juniors we get to experience in playing 11 aside games..

and thats helpful,very helpful...

as for mew maybe we will just look down max and his capabilities in doing this kinds of tournaments,and maybe he will brought this back,can he?wat do you think?

hehehe i just hope nothing is imposible, really..i am very positive it will come true,football is were we will enjoy

hope maxi gets wat we wanted and for cebu football as well
Anonymous said…
totot, i'm not saying that everything was better during the time of coach ugarte. what i'm saying is that the particular policy before, wherein 11 a side format was applied from mini (P12) up to juniors (B17), allowed that particular generation of players a much earlier understanding of how to play a full sided game.

it's a common comment on the sidelines that players today are individually better in skills than the players 20 years ago. i myself agree with that. but i also agree that players before had a better grasp of playing as a team than players of today.

if i were capable of bringing together in one tournament the 1981-82 batch of junior players (ceniza, alegado, sitoy, lor, bajarrias, ramos, montayre, bono, rambo, etc.), return them to their junior prime (age 17), and have them match-up against the Carmen Boys and the 2006 U17 CebuFA squad, i would bet that the 1981-82 squad will whip all of their butts in a 90 minute 11 a side tournament.

i'm not saying that those 81-82 players were better than today's players. they were simply better prepared to play in 11 a side games because they have been seasoned on that format since they were 9-10 years old. however, if today's players were thrust in the same conditions as that of the 81-82 batch, the young ones would whupp their asses.
Anonymous said…
ronaldo: wat ever you sat the president that time is ugarts...and yup you are right but wat can you do now this is football incebu today...can you do something?

it seems you know how to handle things and rules so much,i know you have much experience and knowledge about these,but wat we want today is not wat we get in philfootball and cebu football...

usab usab jud panahun bay sah?unsa man mabuhat nimu aniu?
Anonymous said…
totot and manfred,

here's my input regarding plans to set up a league.

First, we must remember that CebuFA has already implemented a league-format in it's Aboitiz Men's Open Tournament. however, it is not yet a full-grown league since it is still a single round robin even though it follows the points-earned system in determining the league champion.

we must first determine what this league would represent in relation to the CebuFA Aboitiz League. would it be similar to England's FA Cup and English Premier League as well as with Spain's Copa Del Rey and La Liga. one is a tournament with an elimination and playoff rounds, the other a point-system.

one option would be to present it as a proposal to form a Cebu Football League with a league-format. this would open the possibility for the CebuFA to revert the Aboitiz League back to it's original cup/tournament format.

the Cebu Football League (let's use that name for the meantime) would not depend on the CebuFA for funds to finance the league but will have to abide with CebuFA and FIFA guidelines and standards - which will include sanctioning standards, etc.. teams and clubs who would join the league will have to pay a registration fee that will more than cover the league's actual expenses. this is basically a private league - we should expect no freebies.

now, considering that this is a member's only league, the league managers (totot, manfred and anybody else interested) has the luxury of selecting and/or inviting the teams they want to play in the league. being self-supporting and private, the league is not obligated or duty-bound to include all cebu based teams into the league.

make it manageble, 8-10 teams for starters. for a double round robin format, that would mean 135 total games. basing on that figure, we will be facing the following expenses :

1. assuming the present rate of 500php per game for officiating is to be used, estimated referee's fees would be php67,500.00 for 135 games.

2. field rental would eat up a majority of the budget. if we are to use San Roque for free then better. ayala and USC-TC would be ideal but you will be spending something like 3-4thousand per playing day. if we have 4 games per playing day, that would translate into php135,000.00 for field fees.

3. the setting up of the lines is another cost. kalburo or shell dust at taboan market is php200.00 per sack. hiring people to set up the lines would mean 300-500php labor per game day. both expenses would total php23,625.00.

4. even if we plan this as a bareback league, there will always be incidental expenses. for a prize, lets just have 1 perpetual trophy that the champion team will keep for a year and will be turned over to the next champion (this is a lot like the world cup trophy and the stanely cup of the american national hockey league). peg incidental expenses at php25,000.00

add this all up and we are facing an estimated expense of php251,125.00. assuming that we don't get sponsors, the ten participating teams would have to shell out php25,112.50 each.

18 games per team is comparable to the european leagues. unfortunately we don't have php251,125.00 in the bank. this is were sponsors come in.

say we can get sponsors to bring in php150,000 - php200,000. their first and only question will be "what do we get out of it". well, for starters, we can have banners of their company or product plastered all over the venue. unfortunately, that's about it as of now. they will have a minimum return of investment and will have to view their sponsorship as a sign of goodwill rather than an investment. they will have to write this expense off as a loss.

now, where can the CebuFA help. first, they will have to sanction the league. next, and probably their most important contribution, would be to endorse the league to the city government and try to get Cebu City as it's main sponsor and get the use of the Cebu City Sports Complex football field for free. remember, if we want an ideal playing venue, we need to shell out php135,000.00 for field fees, which is the single biggest expense.

when i say "endorse the league to the city government", i don't mean that they will simply make a letter of endorsement. i would expect them to personally meet with CCSC officials to help negotiate for the use of the facility at the least possible expense. it helps a lot in the negotiation process when you have cebufootball's offical leaders backing you up.

that's it as of now as far as the financial part is concerned. back to the set-up of the league.

granting that we invite only ten teams, financial capabilty would be the main factor when choosing who gets to participate. if we get sponsors to shoulder the majority of the expenses then teams may face a more manageable registration fee. we can base the decision on who to invite on the previous performance of the teams in last year's tournaments (not just the aboitiz league but also the CIFC tournament and tournaments held outside cebu). bottom line however remains - those who can pay gets to play.

another thing, we need to discuss with CebuFA what they can offer to the champion team as incentive. will they agree to annoint the champion as the CebuFA representative to the PFF regional men's finals ? or will they choose the champion from their own aboitiz league/cup.

tot and manfred, these are the most significant facts and figures that needs to be attended too first. will add more later.
Anonymous said…
the standards of team composition is something you can make up to suit the needs of the majority of the teams. at 135 games and with 8 games a week maximum, you are looking at an 18-20 week league or at most 5 months from start to finish. considering that the age-groups schedule of competitions are based on the school year, the logical men's league should have a season starting at april (start of the school vacation) and ending around august (the start of the age-groups football competitions). that would at least assure less competition as far as field availability is concerned.

plus, by having different seasons for mens and age-groups, football can be viewed, followed and played the whole year round. as far as the schedule of the season is concerned, we should avoid overlapping with that of the age-groups.

consider adopting the 28-30 man season-lineup with 18 players allowed per game. with only 10 slots open due to financial and logistical concerns, many players will be asking the participating teams if they can be part of the lineup.

formulate beforehand guidelines for player transfers, player selection to a CebuFA team, commitments to school varsities etc. or any other situations that might put a player in a contractual, scholarship, or job-related issue or dispute that may affect his continued participation in the league.

i've been very consistent with this - the men's division should be self-supporting. the scarce sponsorship inflow should go to the age-groups. most of those participating in the men's divisions are working. compute it this way - at php25,112.50 per team of 30 players, that equals php837.08 per player for 5 months of football. that's php167.41 per month, the equivalent of 1 meal at the mall.

gather all the data together and put it on paper as a project proposal when approaching possible sponsors. in the corporate world, a solicitation letter asking for money to fund a sporting activity won't get you anywhere. CEO's and PR guys wants to see programs, detailed implementing procedures and a possible return of investment.

we can't do anything as far as the last expectation is concerned but we can do a lot with the first two. and it all starts with a detailed program.
Anonymous said…
the scheduling of the games, and the actual playing of these games is nothing compared to the logistical preparation behind it's holding. in the tournaments i was involved in, that was were i participated. making sure everything was within the budget, finding ways to supplement the budget, making sure the field and other facilities are ready, pitching in if cash for refs was low, taking care of the team's registration fees, finding sponsors, going after the sponsors. hell, i even got to be a bouncer in some instances when players forgot this was football and started thinking it might be boxing.

from experience, once you formulate a program, everything else will just naturally fall into place. the good thing about programs is that it keeps you from meandering all over the place and it constantly reminds you of your goals and how to achieve it.

by the way, the name "Cebu Footbal League" is very similar to the flag football thingy. how about "Liga Bisaya". we could get Bisaya Ispisyal and the Loalde group as main sponsors.
Anonymous said…
Good idea. Why dont you spearhead the project? You mentioned possible sponsors, why dont you start approaching them with your detailed program? This is for your love of Cebu football, di ba?

Common lets walk the talk! Stand up (reveal yourself) and be counted!
Anonymous said…
nice plan (on paper). now next, who will implement it? thats the challenge now. mind you, the supposedly people who will volunteer to "do" the job have work or businesses to take care of. i assume they are not paid for this football work coz its voluntary. it will take them away from their work or studies. are they willing to do that, take a leave or be absent, for the old, abused saying "for the love of the game"

i agree, lets walk the talk. remember the nike ad "lets do it"
Anonymous said…
back to the thread topic.

can anyone verify the tournaments ? last thing i've read, there will be P6, P8, P10, B12 and U17. i only heard that a B14 was added but nobody seems to be able to confirm it. and will there be a B15 ?

we have an U17 PFF national tournament next year. like last season, we had a P15 tournament to determine who will represent CebuFA for the 2006 U17 regionals. the U17 (or is it B17) tournament this season is supposed to determine our U19 team next year. so how are we going to choose our 2007 U17 team if we have no B15 tournament this season ? from the B14 champs or thru open try-outs (if so, then how will the coach be choosen).

has CebuFA coordinated (or asked) DepED the schedule of the City Olympics football tournament to make sure it won't coincide with the Aboitiz B12 and U17 Cups ? these are the same age-groups and it might again be scheduled on the same weekends as before. several years back, we had teams playing in the city olympics in the morning and the afternoon plus an aboitiz match around noon. let's not make the same mistake again.

i'd also like to know why the U17 division has a "here today - gone tommorrow" tournament. 3 years ago there was none, 2 years ago there was, last year there was none, and now it's back again. sure, DepED and CESAFI can cover up for the absence of a CebuFA tournament for this division but still, i'd like to hear CebuFA's explanation.

i am not comfortable with the way we keep changing our age-groups. it's getting quite confusing. P9 came and went, B14 was U14, P12 was U12, now U17 will be B17. that's a difference of one more year or one less year of eligibility. as a matter of policy, i would want CebuFA to decide and announce once and for all what the groupings really should be.

anyway, here's my picks for this year.

1. P6 - Pepito/City Central
2. P8 - Springdale
3. P10 - DBC, Pepito/City Central, Springdale in that order
4. B12 - DBC
5. B14 - again a toss up between Springdale (because of their 1992born players) and DBC (because of their 1993born players)
6. B15 - Springdale
7. U17 - Springdale slightly favored over Hiroshi

again, pass ko sa ladies divisions.
Anonymous said…
not a bad suggestion ronaldo...but can we do these?

how far can we go regarding these matters?
Anonymous said…
don't forget why we started this discussion in the first place - to provide an alterative program proposal in the absence of a CebuFA formulated one. we started this with the intent of providing options that CebuFA can or may not adopt.

this is still CebuFA's call. finding and convincing sponsors as well as volunteers to participate is easy if CebuFA takes the lead. this proposal doesn't even have to be spearheaded by Manfred and Totot. if CebuFA finds merit in it, they are free to use this proposal.

you know, using terms like "walking the talk" only makes people think that CebuFA hasn't thought of similar ideas themselves. we are here to offer detailed proposals, not attempt to do their work for them. if they react defensively, thinking that it is insulting to them that people are doing the jobs they were meant to do, then we can't do anything about that. we will just have to wait for them to present their own development program and see how it will be implemented.

again, i hope manfred and totot succeeds in formulating a detailed presentation based on all of the proposals they have gathered. my experience when approaching sponsors taught me that you have bigger chances of getting something if you make a detailed presentation.
Anonymous said…
ronaldo: can you help us?in making and approaching for the solicitation?wat i can help is on the organizing thingy but manfred maybe for the qualifications of the players....

and wat will be the ages that we impose?
Anonymous said…
when it comes to sponsors, you first have to classify which are the traditional sponsors and the possible non-traditional ones.

the traditional sponsors does not only refer to Aboitiz Group of Companies, Adidas, Nike or other sports equipment suppliers. it also refers to stores or services that could possibly benefit from participating or "investing" in football.

these sponsors basically has a fixed promotions budget per annum. approaching them at the middle or near the end of their fiscal year will get you nowhere. by that time they would already have alloted their promotional budget to other events.

it is the non-traditional sponsors that you need to approach. non-traditional sponsors are those who expect no profit from their sponsorship but only goodwill. other non-traditional sponsors may participate if they see the event has the support or participation of their employees.

an example of previous non-traditional sponsors are the MEPZ companies, Shangrila Hotel, and San Miguel Corporation. these companies has a lot of football playing employees. you need to approach supervisors or managers who has footballing roots for endorsement and help in convincing their PR division to shell out some amount.

some non-traditional sponsors will help out, not because they are interested in football, but because they have business or personal ties with the organizer. if the one signing the solicitation letter and presenting the program is, say, connected with a hospital or is a big shot doctor, then that person will have no problem getting support from drug companies. that's how you identify non-traditional sponsors.

getting them to contribute php1,000.00 each is no big deal. but get 50-100 of these non-traditional sponsors and you already have php50,000-php100,000. in Bright Academy for example, i personally know over 40 persons with business links to drug companies, hardwares, animal feeds, shipping companies, etc. it would help out if they knew the person soliciting and they trust him.

if maximo and cebuFA endorses and supports your proposal, they also know a lot of probable non-traditional sponsors that they could tap. remember the list of CebuFA voters who voted Maximo and his bloc (Springdale and CIS) into power - review the list and you will see many business owners or managers there. since their children are into football, they may just help out if they see that you have a detailed program.

now, this is the most important thing. these non-traditional sponsors should be approached in such a way that they will not think that they are being taken advantage of. don't ask a huge amount from them - just enough. and if you get CebuFA support, have CebuFA act as depository. the checks and cash should be payable or turned over to CebuFA so that the proper receipts can be given and a credible audit can be done. agree on a MOA (memorandum of agreement) with CebuFA that the funds going into their coffers meant for the league should only be spent for league expenses. that's how you convince non-traditional sponsors that what you are doing is for football and this is not a scam.

as you can see, CebuFA participation is very vital. it will only work if you and CebuFA can agree on the proposal and make it work. but first things first. make the program and make it a detailed one. if it is a very good proposal but CebuFA will not support it, then take consolation with the fact that you have done your part and the problem lies elsewhere.
Anonymous said…
your priority would be to do this in partnership with CebuFA. it gives the process of soliciting for sponsors more credibility because CebuFA will be co-signatorees of the solicitation as well to the account where the funds will be deposited.

don't expect to get one huge sum from just one source. you will only get frustrated if you do.

if CebuFA doesn't see merit in your proposal then we'll just presume that they have a similar plan and would want to do it by themselves.
Anonymous said…
good initiative totot and manfred. good luck on your proposed football project. you can start it small. proved it to others that you "walk the talk". never mind the others, they are just good in blah blah blah
Anonymous said…
oh well, as usual, the only thing the rah-rah boys are good at is bluberring their "blah-blah-blah" comment and "go walk the talk" tune. still have to read a good suggestion from these guys and a credible explanantion why they can't produce a program.

anyway, totot and manfred, good luck again. will give you more proposed policies as it comes along.
Anonymous said…
now, in the event that what you can collect/solicit is not enough to cover the expenses, just make do with what you have and ask for a manageable registration fee from each teams. your final format - number of total games, venue, etc - will be decided after you have a clearer picture of how much money you can realistically collect.

if you have traditional sponsors as well as non-traditional ones, try to balance things out, like for example, holding half of the games at a venue like ayala, ccsc or usc-tc where the traditional sponsors can have their needed exposure, and holding half of the games at a free location like san roque or a least expensive venue like MEPZ field.

manfred and totot, what i have been posting are logistical proposals. the scheduling of games, gathering of the teams, refereeing standards are your expertise. again, try to do this in a partnership with CebuFA - they do part of the legwork as do you.

the approach for age-groups as far as a league-format is concerned needs a different approach. we'll have to start a new discussion thread for that one.
Anonymous said…
i am not sure if i can do this with out any thing to start to... if i will be the one who is in the nightlight or "aku ra mapiit and wa tabang di man ni mahitabu and mudagan"

wat we want is a league but we are not sure if this will push thru,its really impossible for now to do that..we can do it but less assurance..

and we all know that..
Anonymous said…
totot, like i said, start with the men's league program proposal first. if CebuFA agrees to the concept, then that would be the time when everybody get together so that it can be implemented. it's a step by step process. for it to work, it needs CebuFA participation.

don't think about implementation as of the moment. it will only distract you from the program. just figure out the system that will best suit the cebufootball situation.

you already have many suggestions and proposals. just study it first and determine which is the most practical to apply.
Anonymous said…
yeah i have the proposal but i dint have time fror these..
Anonymous said…
its easy to come up with a plan... or a program for that matter (you can even copy it from others). its another thing to implement and take concrete action on it.

i told you so. wishful thinking na lang ta...

Question, if you were to choose only one, will you settle for those who do actions and no program (as alleged by a few) OR all programs (the blah blah blahs) and no action at all?

Nike: Just do it!!!
Bisdak: Maayo lang mo pagarpar da
Anonymous said…
yesterday, while shopping for groceries at WhiteGold House, i kept staring at that open field adjacent to the parking lot and an idea just hit me. i asked one of the security guards who owned it and he told me he thinks it is still part of the Gaisano properties.

now, wouldn't it be great if Gaisano will convert it into a football field considering that it remains relatively unused except for that crane parked there ? 2-3 days of bulldozing and steam rolling will make that field flat and usable. it is relatively intermediate-sized (50 mts x 90 mts.) good enough for P12 full size games, and more than enough for 2 seven a side pitches.

i could just imagine kids asking their parents to abandon SM and Ayala and go shop at WhiteGold because there is a football field there. kids play - parents shop. for sure, such a facility, free of use (or for a 10-20 peso entrance for whole day use) and open only for kids will be a great PR tool. add an outlet of their Barko Cafeteria outside and that's another come-on for the whole family.

the Gaisano Group, along with San Miguel, was one of the major benefactors of the sport in the late 70's and early 80's. i still remember going to the Gaisano Main Store with my 5peso gift certificate given to us as a prize for winning best uniform. i hope we can find a way of encouraging them back to the sport.

i don't know if this is possible or if Gaisano finds it feasible. perhaps if CebuFA sends out a letter of proposal as a start. CebuFA doesn't even have to request becoming administrators. just a simple proposal to WhiteGold in behalf of the football community.

if ever it happens, i will kiss goodbye to SM and Ayala (except of course for their cinemahouses), and shop at WhiteGold for all necessities. and with an outdoor cafeteria serving ice cold beer and showing ESPN and StarSports, it just might be a second home. a 2 hour grocery purchase will definitely turn into a 4-5 hr football activity.
Anonymous said…
oh well, that's the reason why we will NEVER be able to compete against negros and iloilo - when our leaders and their rahrah boys think that what they are doing is more than enough, that we should thank them for they are cebufootball's saviours, and we don't need to plan ahead.

kung naay program, nganong wala man dyud na gipakita ?
Anonymous said…
joloks:

if you will help dont mourmor ug waka kauyon ayaw lang pangasaba,ana raman jud na dapat muadjust ka di kay mag ana dayun

ronaldo:

ikaw kaha pyt ani ikaw man dagahan ug idea and mga planu...pwedi man ka,heheheh

tagay
Anonymous said…
Totot, ayaw na lang pag dahum anang uban diha. Mura na siya ug politiko, maayo lang sa "grandstanding".

Mas motu-o pa ko nimo nga mabuhat na nimo. Lihuka dayon na. Ipakita nimo sa uban diha nga kama-o sad ka.
Anonymous said…
ambot lang aning mga rahrah boys tot. hadlok kaayo ni sila mahimbaw-an nga walay program ang CebuFA. mao bitaw nang naningkamot silang totot og come-up og proposal aron naay ma-ikumparar.

sige lang tot. naa na may daghan nga proposal, hinayhinayan lang ni nato og summarize. then, if gamiton nila then maayo. if not, then pangayo-an nato sila sa ilang programa.
Anonymous said…
totot, let's not mind the rah-rah boys. if they really mean to clarify things, they would have posted their program right away. they are telling you to do this and that but they are not giving you any assistance whatsoever except to blah blah blah that we should be satisfied with what we have.

anyway, here is what we have discussed so far, what we have agreed on, and what we have not yet resolved :

1. LEAGUE FORMAT

the basic format we have agreed on is already in place. CebuFA has adopted the league-type scoring method to determine the champion. the only proposed improvement in the current format is to make it a double round robin instead of the existing single round robin. we do however understand that financial constraints is the main reason behind this.

the two-division format currently in place is also the most practical for cebufootball. 8-10 teams per division is considered the most manageable number as of now. the system of relegation in place has also no objections. the only improvement proposed was that teams who are seeded in the first division due to their performance in the previous season should not be allowed to opt to play in the lower division even if they lost key players.

2. REGISTRATION FEES

last season, participating teams gave a refundable registration fee of php 2,000.00, to be returned after the tournament, and minus any penalties. the proposals we gathered concerning the registration fees are the following:

- the men's league should be self-supporting. subsidies from CebuFA sponsors should go to the age-groups.
- registration fees should not be refundable. it should go to paying for the expenses of the tournament.

what we didn't resolve was how the registration fee will be computed. would the teams equally pay for the expenses, or do we aggressively solicit for sponsors and let the teams equally pay for whatever deficit.

3. OFFICIATING

it was proposed that an "assesment seminar and refresher course" would be conducted before the start of the tournament. furthermore, a separate officiating refresher seminar for the coaches will be held. this is to insure that the coaches will be updated concerning FIFA and CebuFA officiating regulations.

it was also proposed that it be made into CebuFA policy that 3-4 referee's will not be allowed to officiate for the entire game day.

4. LOGISTICS

prizes should be kept to a minimal considering that we are not financially stable. again, the need to be self-supporting is stressed.

5. GENERAL POLICIES

we need to implement the player registration data-base similar to Riscoh's proposal. what we didn't resolve was how to handle player transfers and other similar issues. however, these are details that are very easy to sort out once the major policies are implemented.



these, so far, is what we have discussed on how to further improve the men's division. we have had a lot of proposals on sponsorship and logistics that were self-explanatory and didn't get any serious contradictions so we will just leave it at that.

as you can see, the basics are already in place or are existing. as far as the men's division is concerned, it is the logistical policies that we need to focus on.

when we say "we" in this proposal, we don't just mean those involved in this proposal. "we" is cebufootball. we are not going anywhere if we don't formulate the proper program - and the best program is of no use if we don't follow it.

totot and manfred, we started this discussion to try to find ways to help improve the men's division. we'll just focus on that first and not dwell on implementation. this proposal is just for the men's division. we'll get to the age-groups and other policies latter. please make corrections on any summary that i might have misinterpreted.

after we have tackled all the sectors and issues - including age-groups, grassroots etc. - that would be the time when we can put it together as one whole program of development.
Anonymous said…
ronaldo:

who made that proposal?wat if we will seat with that and talk to those who are willing to help or just us...because that thing and proposal is being posted and we havent agreed for that yet,i didnt know that you made such..

can we talk about it?so it will be more clear if we can produce a mens league?

thanks joe,g lang hinay hinay ra ni akua basta makatabang lang sa cebufootball..bahala nanang mga rharha haha diha nila...apil man na sa trabahu,heheheh..pyts raku ana,ronaldo: pyts raku ana wana blema...

bay lingkuran tana ug ma ok bah kay murag dita samut tuhuan ani nila ug mupagawas tag proposal and 1 person ra ang naghimu ug nahibaw,d bah?kay waku kahibaw ana...basta mutabang ko para naa lang ta lingawan taga saturday or sunday nga game gud sa mens open and atu i pahibaw jud sa cebu football association para supportahan ta nila...

gud morning to all..
Anonymous said…
tot, this is a summary of all of the proposals that has been posted here in this blog. what i did was get bits and pieces from posters like manfred and riscoh and tried to put it as a whole. this is not just my proposal. some of the inputs were posted at philfootball.info and pinoysoccer.com. when i write "what we have discussed", i am referring to the comments posted here, and not that we have personally met.

when you said on the other thread that you wanted to organize a league, i made this summary of the proposals as my means of support to your plan.

now, if you feel that you cannot organize a tournament as of this moment, then that's not a problem. the proposals here are written to become policies, not a specific rule to any particular tournament. this is basically a guide on what to consider when planning a tournament and how to improve an existing one.

do not be afraid that people will not believe you. when you and manfred started thinking about the possibility of setting up a full-size league here, my advise was to make a program proposal first and if you plan to push thru with it, it has to be done in partnership with CebuFA. this summary is my contribution to your plan.

anyway, the summary is here already. feel free to use if you want.
Anonymous said…
totot, ok lang if medyo overwhelmed ka sa scope sa trabaho and decisions nga naa sa proposal. it's not easy handling a full-size tournament. that's why i suggested that if ever you push thru with your plans, it has to be in partnership with CebuFA.

anyway, i thought you understood the nature of this topic. it was not meant to start a league that is parallel with the Aboitiz League or will be a rival to it. this proposal was meant to find ways to improve the existing league or to compliment it.
Anonymous said…
isturyang barbero napud
Anonymous said…
ronaldo:

kuyawa nimu mudag strya bay oi mura man ug ikaw jud ganahan kaauyu,heheheh bitaw i can help and thats wat i am pointing raman i can help...imuha g push naman ko nimu nga waku kasabut sa proposal?overwhelmed sa scope sa trabahu?
]
nganu nakaingun gud tawn ka ana..

bay ayaw palabi pud ug strya nga hasta kami mahibulong,wat i am up to these things that is opened, that i can help..

thats all
Anonymous said…
tot, please review your posts. ikaw man ang nangayo og suggestions regarding a men's league. kamo ni manfred ang nag-discuss about coming up with a proposal and giving it to maximo. manfred even suggested that it be discussed at OAD. in fact, manfred had many refereeing and league structure proposals at the cebufootball forum already.

i just gave my proposals and the summary above came from other proposals posted in this blog. i never claimed that we discussed it in person. again, review all of the posts. everything was meant as a proposal to be given to CebuFA for their consumption. i already clarified that.

now, if you don't want to spearhead anything then that's alright. what i don't understand from you now is why you are insisting that you didn't make the statement that you wanted to start a league and wanted help. please don't try to turn things around because what you said is in the other thread and could still be read there and also in the chatbox. that is why i wrote here that if medyo overwhelming kaayo ang scope sa trabaho then don't think about implementation but just focus on the proposal, which was the intention in the first place.

i will continue identifying areas and/or policies in cebufootball that may need improvement and giving out proposals to achieve that. that's the best many of us can do right now considering that we are not part of any policy-making process. this is where i can contribute to cebufootball. if you feel you have something worthwhile to propose then i encourage you to do so. identify a problem then give a proposed solution. don't say one thing now and say another the next.
Anonymous said…
o lage ingun ko mutabang ko pero waku naghawd nga aku jud kay wamay tabang ug supporta gani ninyu nga nigawas,bitaw bay ok ra mao jud busy ta sa trabahu tanan..ang akua maktabng pero dili to the extent nga aku ug kita ra ...hehehe mis understanding kalimut cguru ko tiguwang na jud ko..pero murag proposal diman cguru,suggestion akuang term ana...

i am not saying many things and akuang ginabawi?wala man akuang junction ra jud sa mutabang and mao na,mao ra bisag unsa makaya naku...pero proposal waku ni ingun cguru oi,mutabang akuang term...

walang cguru ta gasabut permi man ta di magkasabut bay
Anonymous said…
GRASSROOTS

Grassroots na pud ta coz i'm sure everyone agrees that this is the most important concern that has to be addressed.

First a definition - i consider grassroot football as kids as young as 5-6 years old being introduced to the game. furthermore, my idea of a grassroot program is one wherein it is accessible to the most number of children at the least possible cost for them.

i think our problem with grassroot football in cebu is that we don't have any. don't get me wrong, i have nothing against football academies and school-based football which also has 5-6 year olds playing the game. but my definition of grassroots doesn't completely fit in that picture. i look more to grassroot football being community based.

as far as i know, cebufootball only has two established community-based football programs - San Roque Football Club and Hiroshi Football Club. the characteristics of a community-based program can be seen in both clubs - a football field basically accessible to the community, residents who grew up playing football, and former and present players taking the responsibility of training neighborhood kids the basics of the game.

we also have Inter-Cebu FC, which in my opinion is a football program intending to introduce football to where it hasn't been played before. concept-wise, it is pretty similar to the MLSDF Carmen program.

the most significant attempt in a nationwide grassroot program was the Kasibulan. on paper, it had football being taught at public schools thru the Physical education program, with PE teachers supposed to act as trainors and with FA coaches tasked to oversee and assess development.

Kasibulan's difficulties was an inadequate method of implementation. my opinion is that there was nothing in the form of professional upliftment on the part of the PE instructors that would have encourage them to seriously and aggresively implement the program. basically, they can't get anything for themselves if they learn and teach football.

that is certainly a cold assessment but many coaches that i have talked with agree. to many of us former and present players, teaching football basics and expecting something in return is a no-no. but we have to face reality - coaching nowadays demands time, effort and just compensation. if we give that to our school or private coaches and PE trainors, we should do so with public school teachers.

DepED has a policy that could have been taken advantage of as a means of encouraging PE instructors to learn and teach football. you see, DepED teachers are required to take up additional courses and units if they want to get promoted to a higher-paying classification or position. that is why you see teachers taking up masteral courses so they could qualify for professional upliftment. however, some teachers who don't have the time or the desire to go back to school can earn masteral points or units if they engage themselves or participate in certain DepED programs.

one of these programs are the sporting competitons, known as the district meets, the regional meets and the national meets. in our case, that is basically the city olympics, the CVIRAA and the Palarong Pambansa. a PE instructor or a teacher who participates in these events either as a coach, coordinator, referee, or as support staff gets a certain number of points that could be used as masteral points. if your team becomes champions in a local meet, your points doubles. much more if you reach the nationals or the Palaro.

unfortunately, the said system has not escaped abuse. the recent and past Palaro over-age scandals has been blamed on the desire of the coaches to win championships because it would mean a masteral classification for them, thus making them eligible for higher DepED rankings, promotions and salaries.

if we wish apply a Kasibulan-based concept as our grassroot program, we need to find a way to convince DepED to grant masteral points if a PE instructor includes football in his class. not just points if they compete, but points if it's part of the curriculum. that way, we eliminate winning meets and participating in competitions as a criteria for earning masteral points. just by teaching football, a teacher can earn his masteral classification.

as far as turning this system into a community-based program, let me give out this picture first. if you walk away from the urban areas, you will notice that most public schools in the municipalities still has large playing grounds. by introducing football to these schools, and considering that most of these public schools allows the use of their facilities to the community, we would then be achieving two important characteristics of a community-based program - an accessible field and qualified personnel (the PE instructors) to teach the basics.

reality check - turning sports programs into community-based programs is equivalent to several giant leaps and will take a generation or two to achieve. but what we need to think right now is to plant the proper seed.

that's it for now. i hope others can put in their thoughts.
Anonymous said…
totot, dont waste your time arguing with that guy. he always has the last say.

gi ingnan ka ni totot nga magkita mo ug personal, hadlok man ka. maayo ra man ka mo pagarpar diri sa blogspot.

thats why I have high regard for people here in the blogspot who identify themselves and express their opinions honestly. people like mike "mike" limpag, restituto "totot" colina, manfred "inter" schuwerk, eleazar "elying' toledo, etc.

at least they are MAN enough not to hide behind the anonimity here in the blog or chat box.
Anonymous said…
totot, dili na problema. proposal ang akong tumong. parehas ra na nga tabang. lahi lang ta og approach og pamaagi.

the way i look at it, kung asa kuwang ang cebufootball og ang CebuFA, anha ta mo sulod. sa akong panan-aw, maglisod dyud ta og palambo sa cebufootball kung wala tay programa nga sundon. mao nang nangita ko og programa, apan naghatag pud ko og proposal sa mga problema aron naa pud tay maihatag as a solution to the problem.

unya ikaw joe, kinsa man pud kaha ka ? kung kontra-gusto ka nga naa tay programa nga sundon tungod kay kontento ka sa kamo-kamo ra, naay uban nga dili uyon ni-ana. ayaw luboga ang istorya kay hadlok ka nga mahimbawan sa uban nga walay programa. kung wala mi nagkasinabot ni totot, wala na magpasabot nga sayop ang rason sa among discussion.
Anonymous said…
anyway, back to the discussion.

establishing new community-based football within the metropolitan area is hampered by the lack of public or easily accessible fields. however, there is hope in the form of Inter-Cebu and the MLSDF-Canduman project, both based in Lapu-lapu and Mandaue respectively.

almost two decades back, fledging community-based football included Labangon Elementary School in Labangon and Basak Elementary School in Basak Pardo. both communities had the essentials, an accessible football field, players residing within the area and a supportive school administration. these communities even competed in CFA Cups.

however, everything stopped and whatever progress went to naught when school and city officials in the 80's decided to fence all public schools and their facilities for security reasons. it was no longer possible to use the fields thus football in these communities failed to prosper.

that's the reason why DepED must be an integral part of any grassroot program. it is them who has authority over the public grounds. i have read proposals about FA's doing it without DepED participation and i'm sure that is not a practical approach. unless we have several public fields, any grassroots football program would be difficult to achieve without DepED participation.

if we are to identify a particular area to introduce a grassroot program, i would strongly suggest the Toledo-Balamban area due to the following:

1. Public Fields - Balamban has a football pitch right inside the church compound, just beside the tran-central highway. Toledo also has one right at the center of the city. and both are easily accessible from cebu city.

2. Community - Balamban now has many Negrenses working at the Aboitiz Shipyards. yup, the same Aboitiz group that sponsors' cebufootball. many of these migrant workers live in rented rooms and most have nothing to do once their shift ends. furthermore, Don Bosco now has a school in Balamban, thus they might just bring their football culture there.

Toledo has a footballing history. remember the La Salle school there ? Atlas Mining will soon reopen and that is again reason for optimism since there used to be many football players working with the company. and right across toledo city is san carlos city. the potential of this area, if nurtured correctly is tremendous.

however, the first thing that needs to be done is to decide what type of grassroot football approach should we adopt. we need to know what our short, meduim and long-term goals should be.

1. do we go in and hold festivals with teams from the city in the hope that people will get interested ? this would be the most practical way of jumpstarting any program or approach.

2. do we talk/negotiate with DepED7 officials and discuss getting football into the PE curriculum ? or will we expect the FA to shoulder the responsibility.

the outcome of these two steps will eventually decide any course of action. but remember, this is a means of feeling football pulses, not yet an implementation of a program.

from what i recall of maximo's interview with john pages, he mentioned dividing the province into several football districts. i agree with that approach. the proposal here basically is in-line with that concept. but let's start with one district first as a short-term goal.
Anonymous said…
Nothing happened,yet that I know of,regarding the age cheating of the Hiroshi Boys 14 in the last Mizuno and San Roque Festivals. The Mizuno organizers made a report on the parent vs. Bright student altercation (which does not even involve football} but none on the more relevant issue of cheating. How pathetic.
Anonymous said…
mao bitaw sah nwala man to nga issue...
Anonymous said…
bai roberto, i actually got to ask one of the hiroshi coaches about that (not the actual coach of that particular player), and the reason he gave was that the player didn't inform them he was overaged. the player reportedly assumed that since he was still to turn 15 later this year then that meant he was qualified for the division. thus it was the player's fault and not the coach's or the team's.

oh well, i thought it was the coach's responsibility to verify the players' eligibility, and not the other way around.
Anonymous said…
ronaldo we know that it is the coaches responsibility...and thats the job of the coach
Anonymous said…
Right Tot and the coach should have more knowledge about his players. From what I learned was there was more than oneover-aged player. There were 4 players who were above 14 if I remember right. It was actually one of the well-known C-licensed coach in Cebu who confirmed this because the boys were under him at one time. So there should be no excuse for the Hiroshi coach who did not know his players. Dont tell me the other coach knew his players better? Tell that to the marines, pre.
Anonymous said…
mao pre jud heheheh...

bitaw we should know everything for our players...pero usahay makalimut baya jud bay mutuo ko but in this case murag d jud ni limot kay 4 gud...

hope ok lang ni and mao ok unta..

have a nice day,atua ani promote raman gud football cebu bah,and saktu edad jud..
Anonymous said…
pasure oi wa man mo ayo

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