The GTZ questions; the CebuFA program

Most questions are regarding the GTZ support and how much it has given.

Read not the personalities behind the issues (Of course, there are a few posts, which you have to consider that) but consider the issues raised.

I would have wanted to raise a few replies, but the drink in my hand, and plus the fact that I can't seem to put a coherent thought together says I shouldnt.

So here's the gist, rather, the chat.

23 May 06, 19:49
ronaldo: priority nila?ambot unsa-the program should be the priority-not profitng frm festivals.

23 May 06, 19:47
ronaldo: until that happens,cebuffotball wil stay in the doldrums-popular but non-progressive.

23 May 06, 19:47
metatron: i suppose mao na ilang gikabusyhan

23 May 06, 19:47
metatron: so that must be the reason nga wala pay program. on the other hand, unsa man ang priority sa CebuFA karon?

23 May 06, 19:46
ronaldo: sakto lagi,kahinganlan suportado sa tanan,bt the problem is wala pa man dyud na sugdi.

23 May 06, 19:45
metatron: mao na nga dapat solid ang program nga himuon og dili dinalian aron dakog chance nga suportahan sa sunod nga term
23 May 06, 19:45

ronaldo: bt if the program was made by just 1-3 persons with NO input frm other sectors than wala nay ayo.hv u heard of a cebufa miting calling for the making of such a program ? wala dyud.
23 May 06, 19:43

ronaldo: problem with a term-ending program is wil it hv the support of the nxt admin.if the program was drafted and prepared by all sectors then maybe.

23 May 06, 19:43
metatron: sama ra nang pangutanaha nga suportahan ba ni nimong gobyernoha o dili
23 May 06, 19:42
ronaldo: kita lang unya ta.pirmirong round sa beer akoa-si mike tig-tagay.
23 May 06, 19:42
metatron: many of us believe so: the CebuFA deserves our support
23 May 06, 19:41
metatron: paita. gi-personal naman ni sa hiroshi. usa na ka dakong problema nga angay sulbaron
23 May 06, 19:40
ronaldo: the concept of support is this-something must be worth supporting.cebu football IS worth supporting.question-is the cebuFA worth supporting?
23 May 06, 19:40
KTEC: Ang mag team anadam man mo bayad but if wala untay bayro-non mas maayo..Ang bat diha, bisan walay bayad pabayran, mao ng daghan mo question og nasuko.
23 May 06, 19:40
metatron: kuwang nalang ani kay beer
23 May 06, 19:40
metatron: terms are inevitable. what's important is continuity. if it takes a whole term to draft a program, so be it. the succeeding term has that task to implement it
23 May 06, 19:40
KTEC: Maximo sucks. the CFA sucks!. Why can;t CFA accept the fact that for all these years they havent done so much. All it came out on bad critics and poor organizing systems
23 May 06, 19:39
metatron: a clear cut program is needed, that's obvious. when that can be finalized or implemented is another question. mike said maximo gave his word. then let's press for it, not suggest the CebuFA a failure
23 May 06, 19:38
KTEC: CFA has the right to oprganize and promote football with their programs, It seems that they only accept fully furnished plann and sanctioned it. Claiming to be their program on organizing a tourney
23 May 06, 19:37
ronaldo: they hv a term or 4-5 yrs right.how wil they implement the program if they'll present it on the last year of their term.
23 May 06, 19:37
KTEC: election is coming close, the ones who sits the board will be new ones. Maximo wont win, but if proxy voting still exist and he might win it. CFA had no confirmation to change their system on voting
23 May 06, 19:37
metatron: people who have made a difference in cebu football support the CebuFA. that speaks volumes. we don't have to name them but you know them
23 May 06, 19:36
metatron: this sport, mind you, is not all about credit. that seems to be the problem
23 May 06, 19:35
metatron: who says about giving CebuFA credit? many of us talk here of giving the CebuFA all the support it needs, whether it welcomes it or not
23 May 06, 19:35
ronaldo: nobody's whining.a development program is a neccissity of any FA,not a demand brought about by whim or caprice.
23 May 06, 19:34
metatron: please explain the importance of sanctioning
23 May 06, 19:34
ronaldo: if making the sport here more popular is there claim to fame,thats bcoz of media exposure-credit goes to media,not them.
23 May 06, 19:33
metatron: if making a clear cut program will take time, then so be it. i'd prefer that than have a haphazard one. in the meantime we can stop whining and do our part to promote the sport
23 May 06, 19:31
ronaldo: what laurels?other entities caused these tournaments and festivals-not the cebuFA-so wat laurels are you talking about?
23 May 06, 19:30
ronaldo: cebuFA just seems content with sanctioning.i expect the cfa to initiate-not just react.
23 May 06, 19:30
metatron: it would be too presumptuous of me to even accuse the CFA of sitting on their laurels
23 May 06, 19:28
ronaldo: all the festivals we hv now are just cfa-sanctioned.other people looked for sponsors and organized these tournaments and festivals.
23 May 06, 19:28
metatron: look, it's a damn-if-you-do, damn-if-you-dont job at CebuFA. yes, there is no program on paper (available to the public), but it would be more mind boggling to think that the CFA isn't working on it
23 May 06, 19:27
ronaldo: three years ago?well,the aboitiz cup has shrunk though the sponsorship has increased.gone are the P8,P10,P14,P17 tournaments replaced by mere festivals.cmon,how do u improve wen u dnt compete.
23 May 06, 19:24
ronaldo: credit that also to parents.
23 May 06, 19:24
ronaldo: my honest opinion?the sport is more popular,bt credit goes to the individual schools and teams,nt to a any program that cebufa initiated.
23 May 06, 19:22
ronaldo: bt fact is-we dnt hv a program.
23 May 06, 19:21
ronaldo: if we follow ur point-that we should just accept how cebufa does things-that would be applicable if we truly are moving forward with a clear-cut program.
23 May 06, 19:20
metatron: honestly, where do you think Cebu football stands today, say, compared three years ago?
23 May 06, 19:19
metatron: perhaps mike can ask again
23 May 06, 19:19
ronaldo: dnt dismiss the issue as being 1 person's whim and caprice.everybody knows that we have to program that ought to take us frm point A to point B.dnt u think thats something worth demanding ?
23 May 06, 19:17
ronaldo: the very first post i made here over a year ago was me asking if the cebuFa already has a development program.i remember mike saying he will ask maximo and maximo replied that they wil present one.
23 May 06, 19:17
metatron: if that's how the CebuFA wants to run the organization, let it. if the CebuFA listens to every whim and caprice, i bet there'll be football chaos and nothing will get done
23 May 06, 19:15
ronaldo: "when the right time comes" ?they can't even come up with a football program the 3 years they have been there.
23 May 06, 19:14
ronaldo: to sob story here metatron,just the desire to see a more productive cebuFa.
23 May 06, 19:13
metatron: I'm sure the CebuFA will be glad to explain when the right time comes and at the proper venue (their opinion, of course)
23 May 06, 19:13
ronaldo: mike even jokingly posted that he seem to feel he is the cebufa chairman.fact is-and this is cebufootball's worst kept secret-sectors deemed "unfriendly"to cebufa doesn't have a chance of being heard.
23 May 06, 19:13
metatron: ronaldo: do you know if the CebuFA has a PR person? i don't think so, which, i assume makes it more difficult for them to explain EVERYTHING WE WANT TO KNOW.
23 May 06, 19:11
metatron: so ronaldo, tell us your sob story with CebuFA. I'm all ears...
23 May 06, 19:11
ronaldo: the reason why criticisms are made in shoutboxes and forums is becoz the cebuFa only depends on press releases to communicate with the people they are supposed to serve.
23 May 06, 19:10
metatron: because they answer many of the questions here (regardless if it was ktec or not). sorry for the lack of disclaimer. my apologies.
23 May 06, 19:09
ronaldo: so why quote ceburoo?that's his response to ktec.
23 May 06, 19:02
metatron: ronaldo: it seems you're the one who has an axe to grind with the CebuFA. why, did they ignore your well-meaning intentions?
23 May 06, 19:01
metatron: (by the way an observer can be a supporter as well)
23 May 06, 19:01
metatron: ronaldo: i can assure you i am not an insider. but i do support the CebuFA and this is a way to show my support. your assumptions mean nothing if you don't seek answers directly from CebuFA
23 May 06, 18:58
metatron: from ceburoo: "SO YOUR ARGUEMENT CRITICIZING THE CEBUFA AND THE REGISTRATION FEES IS TOTALLY WITHOUT MERIT."
23 May 06, 18:57
metatron: from ceburoo: "YOU SEEM TO BE IN THE MINORITY WITH REGARDS TO THE REGISTRATION FEES. (HARDLY SURPRISING) IF MORE PEOPLE WERE UPSET ABOUT THE FEES THEY WOULDN'T HAVE JOINED."
23 May 06, 18:56
metatron: from ceburoo: "SO THEY DID THAT BY ACCEPTING THE SPONSORSHIP EVEN IF IT WAS LACKING AND FOOTBALL WAS PLAYED FROM SUN UP TO SUNDOWN AT SAN ROQUE."
23 May 06, 18:56
metatron: from ceburoo: "FROM WHAT I CAN UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A FANTASTIC TURNOUT FOR THE TOURNAMENT. IT IS THE JOB OF THE CEBUFA TO PROMOTE FOOTBALL IN CEBU."
23 May 06, 18:55
ronaldo: metatron,for a mere observer,u seem to get ticked off when the cebuFA is criticized.anyway,if nothing comes out from the cebufa re. reg fees,then i stand by my assumption-naay gi tago.
23 May 06, 18:55
metatron: mangapil man ta gani mi bisan naay bayad. ang importante naay tournament. wa lang mi kaabot sa deadline
23 May 06, 18:53
metatron: from ceburoo at philfootball.info forum: " WHY WOULDN'T THE CcebuFA ACCEPT THE SPONSORSHIP OF GTZ EVEN IF IT WAS LACKING. YOU AND ___ AND SOME OTHER MISGUIDED SOULS ARE THE ONLY ONE'S COMPLAINING? "
23 May 06, 18:48
metatron: pasagdii nalang nang mga smuggler
23 May 06, 18:48
metatron: kung kinsay naay number dire ni maximo, tagai nalang nag numero si ronaldo kay he'll make a good football ombudsman
23 May 06, 18:46
metatron: para nako, communication problem ra ni between the CebuFA and the teams. ang problema is kung sagulan dayog intriga nga corrupt ang organization just because wala dayon ka-disclose og facts
23 May 06, 18:44
metatron: ronaldo: who says i don't support the full disclosure of all facts? in fact i even called for an OFFICIAL accounting of funds. that i "fully trust maximo..." is mere speculation on your part
23 May 06, 18:41
metatron: bay, maugtas nalang mog pangutani diri nga shoutbox, di gyud na matubag imong pangutana directly dire kay dili ni ang sakto nga venue. maayo pa pangayog number sa organizer unya tawagi unya report
23 May 06, 18:36
metatron: dane: unsay "mo"? ako? wa koy vested interests sa CebuFA. observer ra ko. bahin sa imong question, tan-awa usa ang meaning sa "sarcasm" haron masabtan nimo nganong giapil to nako nga commentaryo
23 May 06, 18:14
Dane: to Metatron: wpa nimo tubaga ngano gi-apil man nimo sa imo security reason ang Hiroshi nga waman n apil ang ila men's? Ayaw pagbuhat ug palusot pra lang kakubra mo ug entrance.
23 May 06, 18:09
Dane: Dili na sila tihik sa kwarta as long as for the good of football. Ug dili sad na sila corrupt nga daginuton ang gamay nga budget. Can the organizer give the exact reason why they collect entrance fee?
23 May 06, 18:04
Dane: GTZ is a government agency in Germany & they also funded many programs of the PFF. They are not stupid to sponsor with less amount of money for the festival.
23 May 06, 16:11
soccer: to ronaldo...what do you mean nga only springdale or cis have direct access to cebufa????
22 May 06, 21:19
KTEC: McKinnon posted the details on its tournament fixture at the philfootball.info. It didn't state that there was registration fees. CFA answer the question and clarify your rusty name
22 May 06, 21:18
KTEC: ronaldo is right. if a major intl. sponsor will cover a tourney they shouldnt think twice to give a small amount of budget. They already know that it would be expensive
22 May 06, 21:01
ronaldo: lets just do it this way,if kuwang ang sponsorship,all they have to do is divulge the figures.if they stay silent,then that means that the sponsorship was more thatn enough.
22 May 06, 19:38
ronaldo: metatron,since you fully trust maximo and the cebuFA,then u should support the disclosure of all facts to help clear everything up.
22 May 06, 19:24
ronaldo: dnt hide behind "protocol or proper procedure":just answer the questions.
22 May 06, 19:23
ronaldo: if everything is aboveboard then why wait for a formal request.the issue is already there-just answer it point blank.
22 May 06, 19:22
ronaldo: since dili man makapangutana og tarong,ingnon na lang diay og nagchismis.ma klaro na hinuon nga naay gi tago.
22 May 06, 19:20
ronaldo: the general public does not have direct access to the CebuFA unless u are from springdale or CIS.the info re sponsorship should just be made public.
22 May 06, 17:54
metatron: *bordering on chismis*
22 May 06, 17:54
metatron: all this talk is mere speculation bordering on , which doesn't really do any good. simple ra man jud ang himuon ani: go directly to the source. ask CebuFA for an accounting, & ask GTZ how they gave
22 May 06, 14:56
Dane: Ga hilas2x lang ka, ang team nga wa apil sa men's open sa GTZ imo pasanginlan. Unsa man apil ka sa bahin sa entrance fee?
22 May 06, 14:53
Dane: Hoy Metatron or Totot, nganogud tawn gi apil sa nyo justification ang Hiroshi sa nyo secutity concern. Kay ngano d sad diay mo hooligans.
22 May 06, 13:51
theirry: pls ingna lang ko ngano?
22 May 06, 13:51
theirry: naa ka ingon nako nganu wa gi pasulod ang ubang players sa sprngdle? sus pagka sayang sa chance
22 May 06, 13:47
theirry: nag wonder ko ngano wa gipa sulod ni mario and uban pang players sa semis? maayu sad biya tong mga players nga wa gipasulod. apil unta sa shootout unya daog ta 2. sayang
22 May 06, 13:44
ronaldo: again,if sponsorhip money benefits the majority and is spent on the tournament then i have no objections.
22 May 06, 11:58
Gila: Bay naldo, di lang ang sposorship atong i-scrutiny ang mga naninda didto. Nananida ang Thirsty, Pepsi ug duna pay chicken joint dito. As man padulong ang ilang gibayad sa pagtinda didto?
21 May 06, 23:49
ronaldo: football sponsors are very scarce.it should be our habit to maximize what is available to benefit the majority.it's as simple as that.
21 May 06, 23:44
ronaldo: if used for something else then what will it be used for?
21 May 06, 23:43
ronaldo: if gamiton for another tournament then celebrate ta-that's more games for everybody.
21 May 06, 23:42
ronaldo: if the sponsorship money was more than enough yet registration fees was still required then how will the excess be used?
21 May 06, 23:41
ronaldo: simple kaayo,how much was given and how much was the total expense.human istorya.
21 May 06, 23:39
ronaldo: 60 teams daw participated.at 300per then that means 18thou.thats more than enough to cover another football festival.
21 May 06, 23:38
ronaldo: if u insist that we should stop asking then the more suspicious people will get.imagine an international company giving a small amount for such a big expense?
21 May 06, 23:36
ronaldo: mike actuall posted that kuwang daw ang gihatag so why not announce kung pila dyud ang gihatag.there's nothing wrong with that question.
21 May 06, 23:34
ronaldo: if ang actual expenditure is less sa gi-hatag then why the need for registration fees.
21 May 06, 23:33
ronaldo: it's simple mathematics-how much did GTZ shell out minus how much was the ACTUAL expenses for the tournament.if kuwang ang gihatag then the registration fee was justified.
21 May 06, 23:32
ronaldo: if sponsors see that it wasn't spent properly and they won't give be sponsors again,kinsa man ang ma-lkanse

Comments

Anonymous said…
let's start with the issues raised

1. Regarding the GTZ Festival - how much did the sponsors give as financial assistance. the asking of registration fees suggested that the amount given was less than the actual expenses.

2. Does the CebuFA already has a football development program ?

These two are basically it, basing on the "interesting" exchange recently on the cbox.
Anonymous said…
Entrance fees - scam, scam, scam, scam
Anonymous said…
1. GTZ Cup registration fees

my concern regarding the registration fees goes beyond profiteering. if GTZ officials gave financial assistance thinking that it was enough or more than enough to bankroll their tournament, how will they react if a registration fee was collected so that teams could participate.

under that circumstance, do you feel GTZ will continue to sponsor cebu football ? my fear is that sponsors will view the entire community as being dishonest. not just the organizers - but the ENTIRE community.

however, if what GTZ gave was less than what the CebuFA budgeted to make the tournament respectable, then all the CebuFA has to do is divulge the exact amount GTZ gave and also the exact amount that was spent for the tournament.

2. The CebuFA development program.

after over three years in power, CebuFA hasn't yet presented a football development program designed to take us from point A to point B.

how are we supposed to work together if we do not now what direction all of us should take ?
Anonymous said…
i was just informed that the referees were given php700.00 a day. since there were 5 pitches, and assuming there were 2 refs/pitch, the officiating expenses would be php7,000.00 for ten referees.

i also just saw the trophies and MVP medals. those trophies can be bought at SportsCraft for php600.00 and the medals at php60.00 at any Gaisano store. that's php1,860.00 awards expenses for each bracket. since there were 8 brackets (4 boys, 2 mens, 2 ladies), expenses for awards would total php14,880.00.

expenses for officiating and awards would total php21,880.00. add php5,000.00 for miscellaneous expenses and 10% contingency (assuming no field fees were paid to San Roque Parish) and you have a budget of php29,568.00.

based on the list posted here, 64 teams participated, thus that equals php19,200.00 for registration fees (at php300.00 per team).

if the figures are close to correct, there would have been a deficit of php10,368.00 IF there were no sponsorship fees.

am i to believe that GTZ only gave around php10,368.00 as sponsorship to a tournament that has their name on it. if my numbers are correct, CebuFA needed php19,2000.00 additional money in order for them to organize a decent tournament.

if somone else has different figures, please post them.
Anonymous said…
Correction, there were NINE (9) brackets. Low battery ka
Anonymous said…
Again, again. Go back to your drawing board, Ronaldo. Compute it for the second twice :)
Anonymous said…
naldo, 9 gud kung 9. mas maayo man diay ka mo ihap.

is that all you can post ?
Anonymous said…
bay naldo
in fairness...ronaldo's the one one who bothered to compute the fees generated minus the projected expenses.........
Anonymous said…
hinuon, just realized there was a girls 12 bracket. which raises another question - who determined the brackets. did GTZ required it or was it a CebuFA decision ?
Anonymous said…
i remember asking maxi.......that the organizers wanted as many brackets as possible......for maximum exposure to age groups
Anonymous said…
i see. i have to admit, girls12 is a good decision. i would encourage making it a permanent fixture along with girls16.
Anonymous said…
Ronaldo, did you consider in your computation that the 2nd and 3rd placers were given individual medals too? Thats all I can contribute at the moment bay
Anonymous said…
that i didn't know bai roberto. will re-compute in a moment.

anyways, let's just clarify things. we are not into this discussion just to put people in a bad light. this is simply an issue worth clarifying because it affects us all. sponsors are hard to come by, we owe it to them and to us that sponsorships or financial assistance be spent for the good of the majority.

i reiterate, i have no problems with registration fees IF it is absolutely necessary. i have repeated that many times in several forums. what i have an issue with are unneccessary collections.
Anonymous said…
with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place medals, thats 30 medals per bracket at php60.00 each totaling php1,800.00.

so awards expenses per bracket is php1,860.00 plus php1,800.00 for nine brackets totals php32,940.00.

add that to the php7,000.00 officiating expenses, php5,000.00 assumed miscellaneous expenses, and 10% contingency, you have an assumed total expense of php49,434.00.

less the registration fees, thats approximately php30,234.00 the sponsor has to shell out in order that the tournament could push through.

correct me if i made any miscalculation.

that's more or less $600.00 financial assistance. I saw solar sports sportsnews update last night and they reported four GTZ festivals all over the country. so theoretically, that's $2,400.00 for the Philippines.

all we have to do now is wait for someone to post the amount GTZ gave to CebuFA along with their accounting of the actual expenses. after that - human istorya, patyon nato ang issue kung justified ang registration fees.

we can then proceed with the more important issue of why we still don't have a football development plan.
Anonymous said…
murang naay sayop akong last post dah. the second stanza should have read ;

"awards expenses per bracket would be php3,660.00 for three trophies and 31 medals. total awards expenses would then be php32,940.00".
Anonymous said…
If granted, ronaldo's calculation are correct... and lets just round the calculation off... THAT WOULD BE LESS THAN US$ 1000.

This is totally bullshit.... I dont think sponsors would only give this much, This amount is peanuts to them......

Cmon MAXIMO ..... SHOW US THE MONEY.....
Anonymous said…
how about security expenses against local "hooligans"? that would cost around $5,000 :D

bitaw, walay direct contact mo diha sa GTZ aron tapos ang boksing? morag hilom pa man sa tirana ani si maximo. busy lagmit
Anonymous said…
Metatron, Nganong dili mahilum si maximo nga molarga man sa Malaysia.

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